Mariah Tang: Did I say that out loud? Welcome to “Did I Say that Out Loud?”, a podcast where Stu Eddins and Mariah Tang reflect on agency life and answer questions from our higher ed and healthcare clients about the latest in digital marketing, content and SEO.  

  

Mariah: Hey. Thanks for joining Stu and me. It’s, did I say that out loud our favorite time of the week. We are fortunate to have a wonderful guest with us today, Robbie Schneider. She is the Enterprise Social Media Manager at Franciscan Health, and a fabulous lady, if I do say so myself, and she has a really unique background. So Robbie is an author. She is a mental health and burnout avoidance advocate. Is that an okay way to say that? But maybe Robbie, will you give us just a 10,000-foot view of who you are and what brings you here today?  

 

Robbie Schneider: Okay, great. I’m excited to join you guys. I’ve been with healthcare marketing since the early days of the public Internet. So I’ve like, kind of, it’s been very exciting for us, because I’ve got to come from the days of where I literally would like mark up printouts and give it to the IT department to building web pages, just managing message boards to watching the evolution of social media, I really got interested in the burnout and the mental health aspect of social media. It really started. We started seeing a change around 2016 as far as the more negativity in the social space, whether it was for politics, people going back and forth, you know, just kind of reading on each other.  

 

It got much, much worse as we got into the 2020, election, and then with the advent of the pandemic. And, you know, working in healthcare system, we saw the entire emotional roller coaster of people having to navigate what this means for the world around them, what it means for working in the healthcare system. Their lives upended. Their kids were shut out of schools, and then they’re trying to juggle home-based learning as well as their day jobs, as well as you know what’s going to be happening next, as well as the world going through a real time science experiment and learning about a new disease. So it was a very stressful time. You know, we were working 1516, hour days. I think I finally took a day off on day 60. It was incredible, and I felt like I was kind of swimming alone, because social media was the place where people came and working in a small team. 

 

At the peak during the pandemic, I had it was myself and one other person. That other person ended up going outside the field because, probably because of some of the stressors that we deal with, and I had to deal with personally, I contended with a lot of burnout and frustration and anxiety going through that emotional roller coaster of everything of you know, not only navigating the early days and parades in the parking lots to all of a sudden, you know, within six months, people are like, you know, accusing you of having, you know, jabs that are going to kill you and and Some really negative language, and that’s hard to absorb. Um, you know, I got some feedback from people. They’re like, Well, maybe it’s because of the stuff you’re putting out there. And I’m like, No, I’m putting out best practice health information based on what we know. So it’s not a me thing. As I’m starting to talk with other people who work in my job across the country, they’re experiencing the same things, and we’re all dealing with this high level of burnout and stress loads. And I’m realizing it’s not a me thing. It’s a healthcare social media thing.  

 

And then as I kept digging into it more, I’m realizing it’s truly a worldwide phenomenon. I mean, there are studies in Australia and England and across the United States that are talking about the mental health effects of working in marketing communications, digital communications, we’re starting to look more and more on the social media space. There’s not a whole lot out there, but we’re finally getting attention to it that it is so difficult in this always online culture to separate that and remember that there is a human behind the screen, and that human deserves a break from the screen too.  

 

Mariah: Sure. Yeah, yeah. Stu you and I have talked about this at length, about how in healthcare, especially, marketers, tend to take things very personally. You know, we’re very invested in our work, whether it’s content creation or digital ads and all of that. So do you see kind of that similar phenomenon amongst clients that Robbie’s talking about?  

 

Stu Eddins: I do. In fact, I think Robbie, you hit it on a very good point. You may be the spokesperson for an organization out online, but it becomes personal when you put it out there and the response back is personal. And I think that’s a large difference about how that that that person takes it, their their reaction to it. It’s hard to say no, like you said no, I’m telling you what it is. I didn’t just say this myself. We see the same thing coming up in a lot of different ways. 

  

And I think that may be a good point, looking at some of the titles that you have and out there, I especially love social media and sanity right there. First off, an oxymoron to some people that you can’t have one and the other together, but i don’t know i In reviewing the information that about you, in digging into some synopses, of the of the of the articles and such, I really believe that, first off, you’re on to something, but I also think that it dovetails with the experiences of so many people I’ve talked to. 

  

Robbie: Not a study of any kind, but they reported like, man, it’s a slog. I go out there and I’m supposed to take care of social media. It’s supposed to be an informative and sharing environment. And it feels like I put it out there and all I get back is, you know, sledgehammers thrown at me, or the other part of it is just the sheer burnout from volume. Yes, and I’d love to hear your point of view on that. To me, it feels like if there’s two things that are, 24/7 is social media and my health, my health is always present with me. So if I run across something relevant to it, I’m more apt to react to it at 2am as I am at 2pm. 

  

Stu: Do you find that that 24/7 immediacy plays into it as well? 

  

Robbie: It is so challenging, and when you’re dealing with an evolving situation, and that’s one of the things that I talk about in social media. Sanity in you is dealing with, how do you fix the baseline levels of stress, so that when you are thrust into a crisis or a long term issues management situation, that you’re better equipped to handle the stressors of those environments. So maybe it is putting in boundaries in place within your work team. Or, you know, we have work rules, like, I remind my team members, you know, being in the United States is not for the week right now on social media. And you know, I remind them, it’s like you need to check yourself, and if you need to say, I need to take a day off of monitoring, I will step in.  

 

You know, they let me know what their trigger topics are. And if it’s that’s the topic that’s in the news and it’s really getting to them, I will step in and, and I’ve offered to, and I’ve done so before, and take over that monitoring and and say, hey, you know, there are other things you can do to be productive, beyond just being in the weeds and being able to step aside. And, you know, allow yourself to not only have that plan for when things hit the fan, which they like to hit the fan a lot. And you know, how do you navigate that and thinking about that ahead of time, proactively, just like we do with any other element of crisis communications? But I think that’s a very important thing you mentioned, obviously, you know, getting hit with a sledgehammer.  

 

And there were a couple of studies that are kind of interesting. One of us is from West Virginia University that came out during the early days of the pandemic, and it was focusing on the mental health of higher ed social media managers, and it talked about how during crisis communications and during COVID, which I consider a long term crisis slash issues management concern that their mental health on a scale of one to 10 took a hit of like one to two points just because of that influence. I find that interesting. The other thing I find interesting is that there, there have been research studies that are out there about just being in the sphere of negative comments can set the tone of your workday, your productivity, your mental health during the workday. It could be something as simple as, you know, I’m in line at the gas station to get a copy, and the guy in front of me starts railing on the person working at the station. That incident, even though it’s not directed at you, is actually going to set the stage on your stress levels and your mental health for that day. So you know, being exposed to comments like that, whether it’s in person or digitally, it takes that toll. And so, you know, we are very much responsible for the energy that we put out into the world and the effects that we have on other people too. And I think that’s something that maybe we’re not as cognizant of, that we can certainly take a turn on.  

 

Mariah: Yeah, so Robbie’s talking about her book that she wrote, “Social Media, Sanity & You: A Guide to Mental Wellness for the Digital Marketer”. We’ll put the link to order that book if you’re interested in the show notes. And I assume that after hearing you today, Robbie, a lot of people will be interested in reading that you kind of talked about, you know, high level, some of the the reasons that drove you to write this book? You’ve talked about, some examples in the day today, I don’t want to give any spoilers for people, but are there maybe three to five big takeaways for healthcare marketers that they can expect to glean from your book? Like, give us your elevator pitch for the book?  

 

Robbie: Oh, goodness. I feel like we talk about a lot of things. You know? I think it really just starts out with the fact that we are all going through something, and I am so glad that we talk about mental health more than we did even five years ago, and knowing that everybody that we interact with, whether it’s ourselves, our coworkers, our loved ones, the people we talk to online, they are carrying some kind of burden that we may not know about. And so you need to work within your abilities to be empathetic with others. So you know, realizing that we’re bringing that to the table and doing what you can to step back and mitigate that.  

 

Secondly, I am a big proponent of systems, and it’s not because I want everything to be super organized or buttoned up. I’m big fan of planning for all of the possibilities, and then we roll with it like we thought about everything we can and we can feel confident going on. And so whatever you can do to help develop systems on your team to think about proactively what happens in certain events. You know, when do we go dark? When? How do we escalate things to risk management or security, or, you know, what types of things can’t be handled within the bounds of our team, and we need to get other players involved, as well as from a workforce standpoint, making sure that we are not the people drowning at the base of the hill as everybody’s throwing and and as you guys know, on the client side, sometimes we get a lot of ideas, and we’re moving campaigns around and where, and this would be a great idea, and we keep throwing more and more things that and social media will just make it happen, whether it’s, you know, putting up a flyer, just throwing vertical video.  

 

Right now, I’m getting the, could you do a video? Okay, let’s think strategically, you know, that kind of thing. So I’m a big proponent, and this is probably my second takeaway, is, you know, not only having that structure, but being able to advocate for yourself. Practice that if then statement, so if we are going to move up this campaign, or if we need to allocate resources to do this video series, what takes a step back? If you’re marketing cancer and you want to market prostate and breast and you know this new pancreatic treatment, and by the way, we’re announcing this, what hits that priority level that this right now needs to go out to the general public on the social media channels or what have you. You know is everything a level one emergency that needs to be published today, and having those conversations with your team members and other members of your marketing team strategically. You know, how do we get the most of our message? Because the hard work is getting it all together, and you don’t want to waste that just by slingshotting it out into the internet. You want to make sure that you’re you’re putting your content out there thoughtfully, and also giving your team members that opportunity to do the best work that they can when they come to the table.  

 

I think another message that I want to bring to everybody is that you know you are responsible for your relationships, and whether that’s in person or the people you’re working with or the people that you live with, you also have a relationship with technology, and it does not have to own you. I mean, there are exceptions. You know, my phone runs my diabetes app, and I have to have that within my my area. But do I need to be on my phone all the time? No, I don’t. You know, you can set work rules. You can set phone rules. I think my breakthrough during the pandemic, when I mentioned, you know, the 60 plus days of working was when my teenagers, like, you know, you can just put it on sleep mode at 10 o’clock at night. I’m like, You’re kidding me. And because I it never even would have thought, you know, it never came across me because, you know, I’m sitting here as a sandwich person, you know, with aging in laws never would have occurred to me. But yes, you can set those rules. You don’t have to respond to a non emergent work related text at nine o’clock at night. You can wait to respond to your business hours when you are most efficient. I am very guilty that it’s like, if I send something, I will put it in draft and text it in the morning. Or, if I’m like, I have to get this out now, because I know I’m going to have to send them something later. It’ll start with, you know, take care of this tomorrow, you know, yeah, and giving people those that reason to not necessarily have to be online.  

 

Mariah: Yeah, we’re huge fans of scheduled emails. Yes, between Stu Sandra and myself, we’ve all worked together for a really long time, and so we are, we are guilty of that late night, hey, you up kind of text, but for the most part, like we try to set those boundaries with our teams and with each other. But yesterday, this is a little bit of a dovetail, you were concerned about, you going off the rails, like Stu is, like, here it comes, already! Listening to me, but so I want to zoom out from the book. The most recent kind of cool thing that you’ve done was you, you were a panelist at social media.org health 2025 which is a really cool conference that they, they really niche down, and they get industry specific, and they bring experts like you all over the country, you know, people that are in these in these different teams, different aspects of social media marketing, so I want to talk about that.  

 

But first, since we were talking about, you know, rolling with change and leading with empathy and things like that, yesterday, Stu and I were chatting about Instagram’s big reveal about how professional pages are now going to have their content indexed by Google. So that’s, that’s a big organic trend that we’re that we’re seeing in social media. I want to ask the two of you, Stu and Robbie, like, what are some of the trends that you’re seeing in organic social right now and then, what are some of the trends that you’re seeing in paid social that healthcare marketers should pay attention to? So free for all, whoever wants to answer that.  

 

Robbie: I think the Instagram and Threads indexing is a big thing. And actually, they were starting to roll it out about a week or two ago because I happened to just, you know, search for something. It was like I was looking for a reference to a newly joined provider, and I started seeing those posts in there, and I’m like, so that’s important for us as social media marketers, because we have always been kind of tuned, you know, we’re more conversational, we’re more, you know, let’s jump on trends, but really, we need to be about findability too. So it’s really about marrying that language of, you know, conversational, with keywords, and especially the long title keywords. I think the impact of AI, what that is, is going to be big. It is just fascinating to me. You know, just in the last couple of weeks, you know, as I’m researching, because my team does video content, social and blog, so we do, we do the spectrum, and you know, what did we do about concussions or what have you? And Google spits out everything, including videos and Instagram and and what have you. And then it actually starts summarizing and saying, you know, this is what our organization says about it, so we have to be so, so intentional with the content that we’re producing. I think that is, that is such a huge thing. And Stu, I’d love to hear your thoughts about that too.  

 

Stu: Yeah, I agree with you 100% on that. I also went to a little more of an application part. Google also announced about a month ago now that they’re going to be having a separate tab and results for short video, which means Instagram, which means these other social platforms. And up until now, they’ve had Instagram non commercial videos cited in there. Now that they’re going to take on commercial, what I’m seeing is that social media is going to be able to take a front and center seat in getting a narrative out in sections. 

 

Now, now my brain goes to strange places. So first off, let’s, let’s assume something. And you can ask young people that you may know, but below a particular age, you’re going to find most people, when they have a question, don’t turn to Google, they turn to Tiktok or Instagram to ask the question. So when I think healthcare and that, I kind of go to the lowest common denominator. And I think the first question is, what the heck is this rash? And if I go out there and look at it and I get something from an organization that answers how to identify different rashes, my next question is going to be, okay, can I treat it at home? The next question is, if I can’t how to that’s the narrative. Put it together 15 and 30 seconds at a time, and I see that depending on where the person intersects with a search question. A lot of our healthcare organizations are going to be able to get a lot of information out to younger people in a format that they identify with, but we’ve gotta be very intentional with it.  

 

Robbie: I mean, you know, it’s, it’s not the way we used to do even five years ago. And trying to break our Department of, hey, we need to have, you know, the commercial videographer come in and put together a five minute educational piece. Those days are gone, right? And, you know, we are, you know, completely have flipped the script in the last year. And I’ve gotten to the point from, like, I’m very nervous, and starting into vertical video, because, okay, being a print journalism background, you know that that’s, that’s the last area for me to now, I’m thinking that verticals first with everything. It’s like, how can we shoot vertical video, get the experts in the room, and then back it into other forms of content, whether it’s, you know, infographics, whether it’s blog posts, what have you you know, how do you string that together to usable content and really putting yourself in the patient seat, like you said, you know, what’s keeping them up at night? And Mariah knows this, but you know, I come from the background of being a caregiver, and I’ve done a couple of books associated with our family’s experiences as well, and the things that keep you up at night. Right, are not the things that that healthcare systems are writing about, and when you know you’re worrying about things like, Hey, why am I so itchy and I’m going nuts and I’m whatever after surgery, we’re not writing about that. And I realize that’s not exactly marketable, but it’s about building that trust for wherever you are in that in your healthcare journey, whether it is, hey, I’m feeling, you know, off post-surgery, or I’m considering future care. So it’s just, you know, we have to be where the patient is.  

 

Stu: And I think this also shifts some of the balance of responsibility in those who work in social media and maybe responsibility. Let’s use the word opportunity. It shifts the balance of opportunity and makes reactive a little less important than proactive. I recently had a minor surgery, and the doctor gave me all sorts of information, none of which I was able to remember because I had surgery, so my brain was on what just happened to me, but yet I had all these questions, and I kept going to my computer to ask questions. Is this normal? You know, should my left forefinger be numb? Whatever the heck it was, I kept going into it. There are things where social media can intersect with the proactive response that’s normally been marketing, and now bring it in as a social experience. Post operative care. How do I tend to a wound? Whatever the heck it is, but things that people wouldn’t really want to have in their news feed, maybe, but they’re going to search for it, and we have it available. 

 

Robbie: Exactly. And I think that’s about educating your internal audiences about it, because, you know, I’ll throw out the example. It’s like, no one is going to share in necessarily, like a post on hernias. They just don’t want to go there, but they sure, and heck is are going to search for it quietly. It’s, you know, if they’re going to have to deal with it when they get home. And so, you know, thinking, you know, what makes the most sense to reach our audiences is a big deal. So, you know, in those cases, you know, maybe it is on YouTube, maybe it is on Tiktok, for somebody who’s, you know, working in a more active position, you know, you’ve gotta think about where your customer is. And it’s not the one size fit us all. It’s not just, Hey, we’re gonna stick it on internet and it people will find us. We we’ve got to work a lot harder and a lot more intentional with what we’re doing in in healthcare.  

 

Mariah: Yeah, I saw a little quip yesterday that said, you know, it was about AI, but I took it as you know, outside of that, that your brand is is no longer this narrative that you control. It’s a story, and it takes me back, like to college when, when you know college behavior, silliness, and you’re like, What is this thing that I should, probably should be worried about? And you would go to Web MD, and then you’re like, I immediately have cancer, because every symptom is, you know, listed out there. I think this is the new generation, the next generations, iteration of WebMD, except for they have 25 sources that they can go to with 25 per you know, math is not my thing. Exponential influencers that can give misinformation on top of the good information that brands are trying to give.  

 

Robbie: And so, yes, I feel like the influencers, in many ways, they’re doing a better job at Outreach because they are thinking more again, throwing out the long tails, but they’re thinking more in that problem solving. What are people looking for? As opposed to, traditionally healthcare, where, like, Hey, we’ve got a new doctor, we’ve got a new treatment, we’ve got a new whatever. And we’re not about necessarily putting ourselves in the position of you’ve got a problem. We’re here to help you navigate. And it’s, it’s shifting that narrative, and we’re getting there. I think there’s some systems that do a really good job with it, and but it’s, it’s a resource thing for a lot of our organizations too. So we’ve just, you know, all got to do our best, and hopefully, you know, collectively, we’ll be able to educate the public.  

 

Stu: Yeah, along those lines, you know, we’ve just talked about short video of a particular type. I mean, other platforms have been in Google for a while. A key one Instagram, meta. Instagram is coming into it. How do you see paid social interacting with what you’re doing is regular social. And to me, video gets a little intertwined with that, which is kind of my bridge into the into that part of the conversation. But Facebook is unique in that you can put an ad out, or you can take something organic and boost it. We’ve used it sometimes for crisis management. We’ve had hospitals that have had something bizarre or some sort of a red flag incident happened, and the first thing it turned to was social media. But there’s social media is not always a crash course in what’s wrong. Very often it’s also about the good news and such. How do you tend to blend in, paid with your organic and is it a tool that you. Use to determine how engaged the person might be with the product they’re putting out, the product being that post or that ad. Is there any correlation between what you observe happening to the marketer when it is organic versus paid? 

  

Robbie: That’s great question. And I’ll start by prefacing with our agency does all the paid element. So our team is focused solely on organic. What the big question right now, overall, with everything in healthcare communications, I think, is, what’s the ROI? And it’s really challenging, because organic, a lot of times it’s about relationship building. It’s about building trust that, you know, hey, our staff is capable and compassionate. It’s Hey, we have the best practices. Hey, we want to educate you. We are here as your partner to help, you know, keep you aware of what’s going on in our community, whether it’s measles outbreak or back to school, tips or what have you. You know, it’s about imparting that trust, so when people are ready to make that decision, they can pull the trigger at the same time, you know, paid is more about a lot of times, unless you’re doing, you know, a brand campaign, which I’m just going to leave that aside. You know, you’re looking at taking action. You are scheduling an appointment, you are joining event, you’re taking a health screening that brings that totally different animal of attribution, which in healthcare is messy at best, and so thankfully, I’m not having to deal with that side of the conversation as much as reminding people that we are here about positioning ourselves from a consumer standpoint, we’re here about education, and we’re here to help build trust within the community.  

 

Mariah: I want to swing back around to your panel, Robbie, tell us a little bit about what your panel discussed at social media.org health 2025. Tell us why, why you were so excited to be in that group and maybe some of the ideas that came out of it.  

 

Robbie: So social media.org is actually a small niche community that deals with health care communicators within the hospital space social media specific. And I was part of a wonderful panel about, you know, protecting your mental health in the digital space, along with Bailey Cargill and Jonathan King. And it was just a great group of, first of all, wonderful social media professionals who have been in with their organizations for a long time. They’ve seen a lot. They understand the very realities of whether it’s managing a an external crisis or an internal crisis, what it means to have to worry about, I need to do a posting, but at the same time, I’m worried about world events, because there’s writing in LA and it’s not fair from where grandma lives, you know, being very, very transparent, and understanding that not only are there humans working behind the screen, but the humans are contending with real life things on a daily basis. And so we talked about things, everything from, you know, tips for us to, you know, get through our day to succeed, you know, how do you step back? How do you make decisions, you know, like, you know, going dark, you know, when do you when you throttle things back? And really about how you how, actually, as us, as individuals, you know, take care of ourselves, both in the workday and outside.  

 

Mariah: Yeah, yeah. I’m thinking of thinking of your advice and how that will impact the rest of my day, as I’m sitting here thinking, I wonder if my kids texted me back, like it’s only been a half hour. I don’t need to look at my phone, jeez.  

 

Robbie: So, yeah, that’s why I don’t have it on my I don’t have a watch. And I also, you know, the funny thing is, I don’t keep outlook on my phone, and everybody is surprised by that, but I don’t want that trigger every single time of the day, because every time that we get those alerts, it actually triggers something in our brain, and having to do those mental shifts back and forth, it’s very mentally exhausting. So why not do that? Why not be in your moment, focus on your tasks at hand, and then move on to the next and you end up being a little less stressed by the end of the day. So yeah, it definitely working, working on all of these things.  

 

Mariah: We did two of our biggest website projects as an agency through the pandemic. So like all of those, all of those stressors, you know, 24 hours a day, and it really gave me a new not to say I didn’t appreciate before, but a new appreciation for the time, and the dedication that the providers put into all of their round the clock, having to think about this all the time. You know, nurses, doctors, social workers, everybody, and so it, I think it in a lot of ways, those stressors. Of course, it was hard working in marketing, working in social through that time, but definitely the people that were able to find a way through that. I think if we’re still in the industry, coming out on the other side, have a new appreciation for all of the different parts of the team, you know, inside the clinics, outside the clinic. So it’s really interesting. But maybe to close this out here, Robbie, if you had…we were talking before we turned the recording on, that Stu and I have worked together since I was a wee baby marketer a long, long time ago, and he taught me a lot of things over the years, as many people as Stamats and our previous institutions have. But if there, I always think like, what are some things that I know now that I wish I could have told myself 10 years ago, when I started in in the agency world in marketing, what are some maybe three to five takeaways that you would give a younger you know, first first time marketer coming in for healthcare to help them ease into the job and and, like you said, make those breaks but still uphold all of their responsibilities.  

 

Robbie: I think the first thing I would tell my younger self or a younger teammate, is to stay curious and not be afraid to flop. And there’s been times in my career where I, you know, wanted to dive into something, but I was worried about not able to fully invest in it. And so the absence of being perfection, I didn’t do anything at all, and that was probably missed up on my part. And you know, even if it’s messy, messy is still growth, and you learn from it. So, you know, I was thrilled. I finally, you know, I mentioned about the video, I finally dived in. I’m like, we’re going to just do it, and it’s going to be messy and it’s going to be imperfect. And we started a year ago, and now we’re to the point that our team is like, okay, we’re flipping our strategy.  

 

So it’s vertical first, we saw 600% growth between second quarter this year and from last year, as far as vertical video views. I mean, it’s, you know, we’re investing. It’s not perfect. We may never get to be perfect, but we keep trying, and that’s okay. So, so being flexible, staying curious, our world changes so fast, and not only from the digital space, but healthcare in five years, is going to look radically differently than healthcare today. And that’s not even a political thing. It’s just everything that we are seeing with evolutions and technologies and and science and the like. So, you know, being able to just making sure that we are always interested in learning and trying new things, I think is important. 

  

I also think it’s important to be able to say no, no is a complete sentence, and that is very difficult for a lot of us to do. We don’t want to let people do but it’s okay to say, you know, I would like to do this, but it’s not going to be done well if, and, you know, explaining your rationale, and you know, maybe not having to do all the things, but doing fewer things better, I think, is important.  

 

And then lastly, I, you know, I want to remind people to pace themselves. We are not going to solve everything overnight. As healthcare marketers, we are not curing cancer, as much as you know, we can be happy to share when that happens. You know, it’s, it’s bit by bit, and it’s, it’s building that story, but it’s a marathon, not a sprint, and let’s get there to the end, being in one piece with it. 

  

Mariah: This has been a really awesome conversation. Stu Do you have any last questions comments for Robbie? I have about a million questions. We can keep going on here. Robbie, thank you again. 

  

Stu: Sometime, I want to tap into your real, honest thoughts about AI and social media. And let’s talk about privacy. It just keeps going on. Anyway. Robbie, thank you very much. I really appreciated your take. And again, really kind of kind of dug in on the the mental health aspect of being a marketer in this particular vertical. Very helpful information. Thank you again. 

 

Mariah: Thanks for listening to “Did I Say That Out Loud?” with Stu Eddins and Mariah Tang. Check out the show notes for more information about today’s episode. And if you have any questions, concerns or comments, hit us up anytime at stamats.com.